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EBW x THE FORWARD FEMALE | Business Class Ep 1.4 | The Importance of Branding

Krystal J [00:00:00]:

Hey, everyone. My name is Krystal Jugarap and this is EM/POWEREDbyWMN Business Class. Most of you are already familiar with the interviews we do with other women entrepreneurs, where we dive into a little bit more of their stories with how they got started and where their businesses are today. Don't worry, those interviews aren't going anywhere. But this series is going to be diving into strategies and not just stories. We'll be collaborating with select women owned and led brands to dive into all of those juicy things that are really going to help you up level your business, develop new skills, and break down any mindset barriers you might be holding onto as an entrepreneur. Each collaboration will be a multi part series within this miniseries so that we can really focus on specific topics with experts in all of those fields. Each episode will drop Thursday of every month, so make sure you stay tuned, have your pen and paper ready to take notes so we can really build that business of your dreams. Alright, let's get into it.

Krystal J [00:01:01]:

Welcome back to EM/POWEREDbyWMN Business Class. This is the fourth and final episode in our four-part mini-series in collaboration with the Forward Female, which is a coaching and creative agency based in Los Angeles, California. Today we are joined by Maddie Marozik, who is the head of branding and web design for the women owned and led brands. And today we're going to be diving into the importance of branding and really building that online presence, which know, especially in this digital world, something that is so, so key. So I'm very excited for this one. Thank you so much, Maddie, for joining us today.

Madison M [00:01:37]:

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited as well.

Krystal J [00:01:40]:

Let's go ahead and dive into it. So why is developing your brand so important? I mean, I know it seems like an obvious question, but let's hear it from the experts point of view.

Madison M [00:01:53]:

Well, so, yeah, you would think it's super obvious, but for a lot of new entrepreneurs, it can be a really big feat, something that they go back and forth with time and time again. But the difference between a brand and a business is so much, and I feel like people forget to kind of acknowledge that point. So when you start a business, you have your operations, you have exactly what you're going to offer, you have all these things, but you have to attract the right people. And in order to do that, you need a personality, essentially. So I look at the brand as a personality. So it is what attracts that ideal target audience that will convert into a client, a subscriber, a buyer. So it's the difference between Starbucks and the coffee shop around the corner. You know that there's the coffee shop around the corner.

Madison M [00:02:44]:

But no matter what, oh, I have a long drive today. I'm going on a road trip. I know there will be a Starbucks somewhere. It's that loyalty to that brand. It's, oh, I need my Starbucks today. Or it's that connection to your Starbucks order. It's that consistency. So you see that siren logo, the green with the woman on the front? You know, that's Starbucks.

Madison M [00:03:04]:

You know their cups. You know, if someone's walking around with, like, a reusable cup from Starbucks, you know exactly where it's from, because everything about them is consistent. And so that kind of plays into that online presence. Thing is, your brand is also your consistency. It's being consistent with that personality, consistent with that messaging, with your colors, with your fonts. Basically what defines your brand visually and message wise, that kind of attracts the right person to your business and creates that correct flow that is giving those target audience the specific people that are looking at you, and they're like, okay, I connect with them. It's creating a connection with the person. So although we do love small businesses and we want to support that coffee shop on the corner, we do have some kind of a loyalty to the Starbucks order that we've been getting for years.

Madison M [00:03:57]:

And it's consistent, and the colors are consistent. We know exactly where it is on the map. And if we don't want to go to that one, we know where one is by our office or by the school on the way to drop off your kids, that kind of thing. So it's that consistency that keeps showing up time and time again.

Krystal J [00:04:13]:

Yeah. That familiarity that you get really comfortable with, right? And as humans, we're used to sticking within our comfort zones but I love that you are connecting it with personality. And the way that you talk about Starbucks, there's always Starbucks there. You always have that one friend that's kind of just always there.

Madison M [00:04:33]:

Yeah, right.

Krystal J [00:04:34]:

That one friend that loves to wear leopard print, that's me. So I love that you've connected it with personality because that makes so much sense. So how can someone start building a really strong brand if they're just starting out?

Madison M [00:04:51]:

There's a lot of factors to consider when you are creating a brand. So obviously, you want to start with the business and kind of figure out what you want to offer, and then from there, find a target audience. And I'm sure we've talked about target audience probably in every single one of these interviews because it is so integral to the success of your business, not only just focusing on what they want and what they need, but what you can provide them. So first, figuring out your structure of your business. Once that's all sorted, okay, let's say you have these sweatpants you want to sell. And me and Gabby love this metaphor. It's the $100 sweatpants. And the reason they're $100 is because of the quality, because of the comfort, because of where you're sourcing them from all these things.

Madison M [00:05:38]:

You know, not everyone is going to want to buy $100 pair of sweatpants. So you need to find the specific audience that you can attract. By doing that, you get into their psyche. You figure out why they will pay $100 for sweatpants. You figure out what attracts them, maybe the colors, the designs, what it is that will get them to buy those sweatpants. And so then that all flows into figuring out your branding. So when I go into a branding project with a client, we do a deep dive questionnaire about their business, kind of what they're offering, who their ideal target audience is, and then sometimes we have to take it back a notch and say, hey, we don't think that this target audience is exactly aligned with what you're offering. We need to kind of readjust.

Madison M [00:06:21]:

And then once the target audience is figured out, let's say we're talking with a health coach. Health coach wants to attract an audience that is looking for peace and mindfulness and they want to adjust their eating habits. These are all things you want to consider when going into your branded colors and your fonts and your logos. So I love talking about color psychology. It's a huge thing that I love to integrate into my branding projects. So there are tons of different graphs online that you can find, but my favorite one basically breaks down every color and their hues and then what those colors are related to with emotions. What emotions those colors evoke from an individual. So, like the color red and the color blue evoke total different emotions from someone.

Madison M [00:07:12]:

So red is very bold and strong and fiery, and whereas blue is calming and peaceful. So if you're going for that more peaceful realm, you don't really want to pick a bright red because that might be a little bit offbeat. Whereas if you are a style brand or stylist, maybe, let's say, and you want to present yourself as a strong bold and grab that attention, then you might want to go for that red. So it's just a matter of picking colors not only that you like, because you're going to see them a lot in your socials, in your websites, everything, any merch, the colors are going to be everywhere. So you want to make sure you like them, obviously, but you want to make sure that they connect to your audience and they connect your audience to your brand. They pull them in, they grab their attention, they evoke that emotion. That kind of gives them that connection to you. It connects them to your personality.

Madison M [00:08:03]:

It's like, okay, I feel at peace when I'm looking at this Instagram, that kind of thing. With fonts and logos, you want to make sure legibility is a huge priority. We obviously love those very decorative or standout fonts that are script or like those slab serif type of fonts. But a lot of those times, they can be a little bit difficult to read, especially if they're smaller. So if you do choose those fonts, I always recommend using them as accents. So I always suggest a header, a subheader body paragraph, and an accent font. A lot of the time, some of my clients will use their subheader font as an accent font and then we'll just italicize it. So it's still pretty consistent with those other fonts.

Madison M [00:08:50]:

And I love breaking down each type, which just could go into a whole other conversation. But there's different, four different font groups that I love to talk about, and I talk about those in my branding workshops where you have your typical Times New Roman, which is a serif, so it has those little ticks on the end, and then the San serif without the ticks. And the reason I bring these up is because there are specific ones that are compatible with others and some that aren't. So it's just a matter of seeing what you like, but also what works and then always asking the people around you and the people that you would be trying to target. So let's say you're selling those sweatpants and, you know, your friends are in that target audience. Go to those friends and say, hey, what do you think of this logo? What do you think of these brand colors and fonts? What do you feel when you see this? So it's just a matter of finding that audience, picking the right things that will attract them, and then pulling yourself back and reminding yourself, hey, I'm not the only one that's going to see this branding. I need to go outside and see what people think. And then it's just a matter of figuring out what works from there.

Madison M [00:09:59]:

And then once you do find what works, you stay consistent as possible, as much, as much as possible on your socials, website, newsletter, anything, any branding that you send out to other people that are promoting you, partners, if you're being featured in an article, something that just relates. So that way they see that consistency and they know, oh, I know that brand and I like that brand, I want to read about that, or I know that brand, I like that brand, I want to follow this instagram, that kind of thing. It's the same thing with, see, we know that logo and we see it anywhere. We see those cups and we know, okay, that's Starbucks. It's a recognition sort of thing. So creating that consistency is what creates the recognition. And that repetition of them seeing you is like that reminder of, oh, I do need that service, oh, I do need those sweatpants. It's the constant being in front of them that gets them to convert.

Krystal J [00:10:52]:

Definitely. Being able to have that consistency, like you said, and being able to build that recognition, I think is so important. Like, your website should not look completely different than your Instagram. Totally. And there are some brands out there that are like that. And going back to finding things that you like, colors and fonts that you like, but still making sure that not only does it work well together, but that it resonates with the people that you're actually trying to target. So being able to reach out to friends and asking for their input, I think also is so key because time and time again I come across brands that I feel like their product is really strong, but their branding does not at all reflect their product and it probably reflects the person behind the product, like to a t with these bright red colors and big bold fonts, but it does not do the product justice at all.

Madison M [00:11:49]:

I totally agree. I was just going to say that a lot of the times when we are starting businesses, I find with a lot of my clients, we're so far in that we kind of create these little blinders where it's like we're not seeing what's around us, we're just seeing what's in front of us. And we're so involved, we're so invested that we forget to kind of take that step back and remind ourselves there are other people that are going to be receiving this. And so that's why I did mention showing your friends, or even just your family, or if you see someone on the side of the road that's wearing sweatpants that resonate with the sweatpants you were going to sell. Hey, what do you think of this? It's just putting yourself out there in those uncomfortable positions. But we want to get uncomfortable, to get to the right place, because getting uncomfortable is putting us in those positions where we're like, okay, not only do I like this, but other people do too.

Madison M [00:12:40]:

And not just my friends, not just the people that will always support me. It's these other people that are my audience. And I know now that I've pulled myself out and I've involved these other people that it's not just me that likes it, it's other people. And it will do well, that kind of thing.

Krystal J [00:12:55]:

And that comfort that definitely starts to build the more you put yourself in these uncomfortable situations. It might not ever go away completely, but you will definitely start building that comfortability. Kind of putting yourself out there and kind of going back to making sure you're not just focused on what you like or what you want. When you mentioned the target audience, sometimes you have this ideal target audience in the back of your mind, but that's not necessarily aligned with what brand or products you're putting out there. And you need to really take another look at that and revisit that and really redefine what your target audience looks like.

Madison M [00:13:33]:

Totally. And I've had clients where they've come to me and they're like, I'm not getting people buying or I'm not getting people that are subscribing or vice versa, anything. They're not booking a call. All of this stuff. And a lot of the time it's because the offer or the product or the service doesn't match the target audience. And in that case scenario, you have to figure out which one you want to prioritize. Is it the offer or the target audience? If it's the offer, you need to readjust what you're looking at for your target audience and vice versa. If it's the target audience, you need to readjust your offer.

Madison M [00:14:07]:

If you want to prioritize both, then you need to create the offer that will meet that target audience. And you need to also then target target audience that will meet your already offer. So if you are ready to expand and do that, then I would say you could do one for each. But if you are starting out, I do recommend just prioritizing one and working your way up from there. You can always come back and add another target audience or another offer later down the road, but being able to focus on one, making sure it works and with the people that you are targeting should be your priority when starting your business and all of that.

Krystal J [00:14:40]:

Yeah. Such great insight.

Krystal J [00:15:38]:

All right. Hypothetically, let's say our business, our entrepreneur that we're working with, they got their brand down pat and they know exactly how they're putting their brand out there. How would you suggest they start building their online presence?

Madison M [00:15:53]:

I would start with socials and website. I think those two are very important, not only because they are reaching a wider audience, but because they are places where you can be as consistent as possible. So with your socials, that could be anything from Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, any marketing channel. And then with your website, it's picking a platform that if you or a web designer creates for you, that branding is very aligned. And so that way your website can funnel them to your socials, your socials can funnel them to your website. It's constantly creating that back and forth of not only consistency, but providing them with the information, the credibility, all of that. And that consistency also helps establish the credibility. And I think a lot of business owners go into creating their business and they think, oh, I need to focus solely on Instagram.

Madison M [00:16:45]:

I need to be on Instagram. And everything revolves around Instagram. And although Instagram does help a lot of businesses today succeed, it is not the end all, be all. And you do need a website to kind of provide the extra information and the credibility. You can also use a website for a blog and just boost your SEO, which is your search engine optimization. And that kind of pushes you in front of your audience. Google will literally shove you right in front of their face if you let them. And it's just a matter of understanding the target audience back to them and kind of putting yourself in front of the right place that they are.

Madison M [00:17:22]:

So you want to figure out, okay, with these sweats. I know this target audience likes to go to this coffee shop. I know this target audience is on TikTok and Instagram, and I know they look at reels all the time, and I know that this hashtag. So you're putting yourself then in those places. You're intentionally putting yourself where your target audience is showing up, where they're looking, where they're eating. You want to know everything about them as if you are them, and then find, okay, well, if I was them, what would I look up? And then you want to put those words in your website. You want to put those words in your social platforms. Like, for example, sweatpants.

Madison M [00:18:02]:

We'll go back to the sweatpants metaphor. You're going to look up, let's say this person wants luxury sweatpants. So you're going to say, purchase our luxury sweatpants on this website. You're using the words that they would look up. So you're intentionally putting yourself in front of them, because the search engine optimization, Google or Instagram or whatever, searching is going to see that word and see the words that they're looking up and say, hey, these people are talking about the same thing. Let me introduce them. So there's a whole lot going on in the background that we don't really see, but it is honestly creating that funnel back and forth where the person is seeing you, they are remembering you, and then they are converting. So it's a whole cycle.

Krystal J [00:18:49]:

You brought up something that I definitely want to dive into, which is SEO. I know, optimization. So that's one of the things I mentioned in one of the previous episodes that just that phrase alone can feel very intimidating to some people because it feels very coding heavy. Like, if I had no idea what SEO meant, I'd be like, I have no idea. I have no idea. Someone else can do it. But do you need to have an extensive coding knowledge to be able to optimize?

Madison M [00:19:19]:

Not at all.

Krystal J [00:19:20]:

Break it down.

Madison M [00:19:22]:

Let's get into it. It's one of my favorite topics recently because I feel like, just like you, when I first heard about SEO, when I was learning everything that now I do on a daily basis, I was like, oh, my word, I have no desire to get into that. That sounds scary. Nothing I've done before, blah, blah, blah. And after a few years of getting into it, it's a lot less scary than we all think. And I think people, when they hear search engine optimization, they immediately go to Google or Internet explorer or the Internet in general. And me and Gabby always love to tell know Instagram is a search engine. TikTok is a huge search engine.

Madison M [00:20:05]:

These social media platforms are other search engines. So your SEO is not just on your website, it's on any platform where people have a search bar. So basically, to get into it, the easiest way I can explain it is you're optimizing the words that you are putting out there to reach the specific target audience. So back to what I was saying about what words they might be looking up and what words you're including in your titles or in your product titles and all that, those are connected. And if you're saying, okay, they're looking up luxury sweatpants, you want to make sure luxury sweatpants is showing up a couple of times on your site, showing up a couple of times in your captions, in your Instagram bio, where that bolded part is, that's a title. Anything in your Instagram bio. Because when you're searching, even now, today, if I am looking for a new hairstylist, I'll go on Instagram and I'll look up hairstylist Los Angeles. And so I'll go through all of the accounts that pop up with that.

Madison M [00:21:10]:

Not only are they pulling from the location tag at the top of the image, but they're pulling from their bio, they're pulling from their Instagram handle. Anything that is a word anywhere on your social platforms and on your website is optimized in some way through search engines. So that brings me to your website. So a great way. I have a few tips on how to do it if you don't need coding whatsoever. The first one I love to mention is titling your images on your website. So a lot of people will just upload an image that's IMG 4567 Jpeg. If you title that image and let's say you're a health coach, Crystal health coach specializes in XYz JPEG.

Madison M [00:21:56]:

Then Google sees that. And if someone's like looking up health coach specializing in XYZ, Google says this image has that and so they pull that. So that's a visual way to do it. Blogging is an incredible way to boost your SEO on your website, but just being really intentional with the words you're using. And there are ways to find, there are different platforms online where you can search up the specific keywords that are connected to your brand and you can mess around with them, figure out the best ones and kind of see the repetition and what you can include and then being really intentional with where you're putting them and how often you're putting them. I like to tell people that your website should be repetitive, it should be redundant where a lot of people come to me and they're like, no, I don't want that section on there, every page. And it's like, well, what if someone only goes to that page? They're going to miss out on this information, or they might miss out on this keyword and that might be the small change that prevents them from converting. So it's that consistency again.

Madison M [00:22:57]:

Not only are you consistent with your branding, with your colors, but you're consistent with the words you're using. It's luxury with those sweatpants. It's luxury. It's luxe. What are other synonyms for that where you're kind of picking the right words that are bringing in that right audience for that situation? So same thing with socials. It's picking the location, it's making sure those keywords are in your bio, making sure your handle is something that people will recognize when they see it, not just a bunch of letters and numbers. Save those for your personal right. If you're a business, you want to spell it out for the viewer.

Madison M [00:23:36]:

Because as a consumer, think about yourself as a consumer. I like things easy. I like to know what I'm looking at and I like it to be told to me right away. I don't want to have to dig for it. I don't want to have to assume. So if I see a handle that's like XYZ one, two, three, I'm not going to assume that they're the hairstylists in Los Angeles that I wanted. I'm just going to assume that they're a personal Instagram. I want to see Madison hairstylist or hair by Maddie in LA, something like that.

Madison M [00:24:05]:

So it's just being intentional with the way you're presenting yourself. And that just goes back to the branding, it goes back to the specific keywords, and it goes back to that audience that you are so focused on. And when people think they're done learning about their audience, they're not. It's constant learning. It's okay, there's a new month. What's the new trend that my audience loves? Let me get in front of that trend. Let me figure out those sounds on TikTok. Let me get on that meme that everyone's loving from the Oscars because my audience was watching the Oscars.

Madison M [00:24:39]:

So it's just those little things. It's just knowing everything about them and giving them what they want and need. And sometimes what they need isn't something that they know that they want. And if you're able to give them that, they're going to trust you, because it's like, whoa, I didn't even know I wanted that. I need that now. So it creates that bond with the audience and all that.

Krystal J [00:24:59]:

That last thing that you just said reminded me of something I just saw on TikTok, I think, earlier this morning, and someone posted a comment on, like, I was going to say real, but it's a TikTok. It's on TikTok. Right. Saying something like TikTok has made me realize I've never had an original moment in my life.

Madison M [00:25:16]:


Krystal J [00:25:17]:

People are thinking the same thing you're thinking for sure. So being able to put it out, there is a great way to start building that connection. And I just love how simple you've made SEO seem. And it really can be as simple as just being mindful of how you're writing your captions. Like, don't just write new candles out today or whatever, like soy candles or whatever. I don't know all the candle phrases. Yeah. Being very intentional about it and also writing the caption as if it's always going to new people and not people that already know who you are.

Krystal J [00:25:56]:

Right. And adding in all those juicy details, because, like what you said, I want people to give me the information right away. I don't want to have to dig for it. Exact same way. If I have to go a few posts down and have to keep digging to figure out where you are or what you're doing, the information is probably too hidden.

Madison M [00:26:13]:

100%, and you're like, boom, I'll find someone else. Because there's always someone else who has the information right at the top. It's in their highlights, or it's in the first post that's pinned at the top. It's just making it easier for the person that's looking at it. Because as a consumer, as any consumer, we want ease. We want simplicity. We want it right in front of us, handed to us on a silver platter. And when it is, it's an easy conversion.

Krystal J [00:26:41]:

You got to cater to the lazy people.

Madison M [00:26:43]:

Yeah, exactly. You got to assume that not everyone is a go getter. You have to assume that everyone is just ready for you to hand it to them, and you do, and you hand it to them, and then most of that time, you'll see that conversion time and time again because they're like, okay, I've seen this post five times now. Not this post, but you'll see, I've seen this logo five times. I'm really interested now. The recognition, I remember them. I remember that reel. That was funny. I really enjoy the product. It's just kind of like putting yourself in front of them time and time again.

Krystal J [00:27:15]:

And eventually they'll get to the point where it's like, okay, I give in. Let me take a look. Let me dive a little bit deeper.

Madison M [00:27:22]:

You obviously don't want to do too much. You don't want to overwhelm them and get annoyed. We always like to reference email newsletters. I am notorious for signing up for a newsletter for that 15% off right off the bat. And then a couple of months later I'll get a million emails for them. I'll be like, oh, my gosh. Get out of my inbox. Unsubscribe.

Madison M [00:27:43]:

You don't want to be that business or company or brand that is constantly shoving stuff in front of their face. If they're a subscriber, you got to give them a little cushion. Like they've already kind of committed to you in a way. Give them, obviously value, but don't inundate their inbox with your name, your name, your name. Because they're going to be like, okay, I don't need this many notifications in a day or a week or a month. But if you provide them with that value and it's like it's at the right time, spaced out enough, then it's like, okay, I'll get an email and I'll see, oh, this new launched collection and there are specific pieces top picked for me and they are top picked for me. Those are what I would buy. It's like, okay, that honestly created value for me.

Madison M [00:28:32]:

Put exactly what I wanted right in front of me and there I go. Click add to cart and buy or same with a service in any industry. It's just intentionally putting the right things in front of people. And the right things are what you figure out by figuring out the target audience always comes back to them.

Krystal J [00:28:54]:

So speaking of conversion, how are some ways that we can measure whether or not our online presence is converting the way that we want it to?

Madison M [00:29:04]:

There's a few ways so Forward Female every Monday we go through our analytics and that is anywhere from member attendance in our meetings, social analytics on Instagram, TikTok, Pinterest, Facebook, LinkedIn, all of the social analytics website traffic. I built our website on Squarespace and in the backend you can look at your traffic source. Same thing you can do on Shopify, same thing you can do on Wix. So you can do that on any website platform. And it's just a matter of tracking those numbers. And so we do it every week. So for the past couple of years, every week we've tracked every number that we've seen.

Madison M [00:29:47]:

So with that, it's just a matter of being consistent, seeing, okay, why are these numbers low this week? And it's like, okay, well, we didn't really post that much on here. And last week when we did, we saw a lot of people go to the website. So it's tracking where and when and why. And so we kind of go through all of that. And I would highly, highly suggest it for anyone. Starting a business is just opening up an excel sheet, giving different pages, and in those pages being like, okay, this is for Instagram, this is for LinkedIn. And tracking every month, email, newsletter, tracking your clicks, you can do that also in the back end of your newsletters most of the time. And these platforms are doing it for you.

Madison M [00:30:29]:

They're providing it to you on that silver platter. It's just a matter of you pulling it and saying, okay, I have this from Monday of March 3. And then I don't know if that was Monday, but you know what I mean? Like, you just pull and you keep track of those different weeks and the different months. You're like, okay, this month we did really well on Instagram. Why? And, okay, that month we posted three reels a week and we did an ad on this XYZ, pushed it to this target audience. And it's just a matter of knowing what you're doing and keeping track of.

Krystal J [00:31:04]:

Definitely, you know, this goes back to what me and Priscilla were talking about and knowing all of those analytics and checking. I think you guys do weekly and monthly. I think she probably does daily.

Madison M [00:31:19]:

Probably. That's funny.

Krystal J [00:31:23]:

Some kind of every now and then, at minimum, checking where has all of your strongest performance been and really allowing that to help you refocus the way you're bringing your content and the way you're putting yourself out there online to continue building your online presence. So we are nearing the end of this session, but do you have any other tips for building your online presence that we have not yet covered?

Madison M [00:31:57]:

I think I just want to reiterate that it's okay to come to a point where you're like, oh, this isn't working, or I don't like this, and it's okay to shift. A lot of people are like, okay, well, I picked this and I have to stick to it. And it's like, well, yeah, you need to be consistent and you need to be recognizable, but you also need to pick something that's working. And if what you picked before isn't working, then it's a matter of, okay, well, what can we do to keep us recognizable but fix it so that it is working and it's just a matter of being consistent. So it's okay to switch up things if you need to. Obviously, if you can stay as consistent for as long as possible, do that. But don't be afraid to shift when you need to. Is my biggest thing.

Krystal J [00:32:49]:

With that said, if there were anyone that was listening, they're like, oh, my God, I totally need to rebrand. Is there a right or wrong way to rebrand? Do you have any tips for that?

Madison M [00:33:00]:

I would say there's no wrong way. Well, I don't like saying right or wrong because everyone is different and every business is different and every business's target audience and their needs are different. So it's just a matter of peeling yourself back again. It's like we're so far in that all we're seeing is what we're seeing. And so, for instance, if I'm dealing with something, with a client and I run into an issue and I know I have the answer, but I just can't figure it out because I'm so far involved. I then go to my team, I'm like, what am I missing? And they're like, oh. And they answer me in 5 minutes. It's because they're removed from the situation.

Madison M [00:33:37]:

They're not thinking about all these x, y and Z's. They're just thinking about what I asked them. And so it's just taking yourself out a little bit, asking the people around you. So if you're struggling with your branding, you're like, I don't like it anymore, or I don't think it's working. Talk to the people around you and ask them, what do you think is working and what isn't. Take note of that and what is working. Use that to your best ability and bring that into your rebrand. So if you know your logo is so strong, but your colors and your fonts aren't, then say, okay, I'll keep the logo, but let me infuse these colors and slowly introduce this new branding to my audience and say, hey, you need to definitely acknowledge it and say, hey, look, we've rebranded.

Madison M [00:34:21]:

This is us, but still have those hints of the past. So that those people that were there when you started, can still recognize you, still connect to you now, just peeling back, asking the people around you and then referring to your target audience time and time again. We love the target audience, and they are also always evolving. So evolve with them if you have to kind of thing. Or maybe your target audience needs to evolve with your brand. So that is also going back to that offer. And the audience, if they're not matching, which one needs to give. So it's a matter of readjusting. And that's not a bad thing.

Krystal J [00:35:01]:

You definitely have to analyze both ends. But I do think that's the key thing there is, making sure you're bringing in your audience with you that next go around, because the first go around, that's probably where the issue lied, right? You kind of were just doing everything focused on yourself and what you wanted and what your ideal, whatever was. But now that you have an audience or you're starting to build that audience, you really need to loop them into the process and see what they want as well.

Madison M [00:35:27]:

Yeah, 100 million%. I've worked with a few entrepreneurs that came to me with that exact issue. I did this branding. I really liked it, but it's not working. Something's not working. Not only they're like, I can't design these social graphics. I have no idea how to use these colors. I have no idea how to use these fonts.

Madison M [00:35:53]:

And in that case, I'm like, okay, well, do we like these colors and fonts? Does your audience like these colors and fonts? And if it's a yes, then we figure out, okay, how can we use them? If it's a no, then we readdress. But a lot of the times I feel like people worry that they can't use them. Like, oh, I can't put this Instagram post together. And it's when you are creating that branding. One thing I want to note, because I know we're wrapping up, is create some Instagram posts and see if you like those colors and fonts together. Create a mockup website section and say, okay, I don't really like these colors together. They don't work. I like them separately, but they don't work.

Madison M [00:36:33]:

So it's like, okay, which one do you really want? It's like, well, I really want this blue, so then this red got to go. And then you find something else that you see is compatible with that blue, and it's like, okay, this looks really good in a website mockup. This looks really good on socials. All right. This is more aligned with what I want. And then it's just readjusting from there.

Krystal J [00:36:52]:

Yeah, just keep tweaking, testing it out until it feels right and it goes back to that intuition.

Madison M [00:36:59]:

And don't rush yourself. Don't feel like you have to do your branding in a week. Most of my branding clients, we take about a month to two months. Two months is like the longest. But give yourself the proper time to really go through every step. Deep dive into what you want, deep dive into your target audience and then evolve, evolve, evolve until you're like, all right, I'm ready to go. This is perfect. You have to be obsessed with it. A million percent.

Krystal J [00:37:28]:

Aside from your face, that is the face of your brand. That's what's going to be out there. So 100%, yeah. Don't rush it. You really need to be very intentional about how you're creating it. Maddie, you've been incredible. You're clearly full of so much insight. So if anyone watching or listening out there does need some branding assistance, reach out to Maddie from the Forward Female.

Krystal J [00:37:49]:

You can work directly with her. You can have the whole team. They're incredible. Thank you so much, Maddie, for joining me today and for sharing all of this amazing insight that you have to share.

Madison M [00:38:00]:

Loved it. This is so fun. Thank you for having me and for.

Krystal J [00:38:05]:

All of our audience that's watching, whether you're watching on YouTube or listening on your favorite podcast platform. Again, thank you so much for tuning in. If you haven't caught the first three episodes, make sure you go back and catch all of those so you get all the juicy details for all aspects of your business. As a reminder, the Forward Female is an EBW official brand partner, so we do have an exclusive discount with them if you join our EM/POWEREDbyWMN directory. But I will link everything down below so you know exactly where to find them. Thank you again so much for tuning in. And thank you again, Maddie, once more.

Madison M:

Thank you.

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